On utopia, real rituals and Hollywood occultism, Miley Cyrus and much more interesting stuff before Saturday's show with goatwave cult leader Ashley.
SANCTUARY.CZ: HAIL TO THE GOATS! HOW ARE YOU? EVERYONE HEALTHY AND READY FOR ACTION?
Ashley: Last time I checked yeah. We are ready to goat out in Prague once more. It’s been way too long and we are very much looking forward to bring the Goatopia Show to one of my favourite cities.
SANCTUARY.CZ: GOOD TO HEAR! WE HAVE RECENTLY REALIZED THAT THE DEVIL & THE UNIVERSE HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN WITH US FOR OVER A DECADE NOW... IT'S FLOWN BY! DO YOU REALISE THE LONG JOURNEY, OR DOES IT NOT EVEN OCCUR TO YOU THAT IT IS SO LONG?
Ashley: As it always is with time, it feels both like a short and a long time. A lot of things happened since we first started this journey. I never would have thought that this weird project will resonate as much with the people as it still does. I don’t know why that is. Maybe because we really are different. It all came very naturally and that early days were some of the most creative I ever had. Our strange sense of humour certainly is something very unique and surely is one of the reasons why it worked.
SANCTUARY.CZ: I AGREE. BUT BESIDE THE SENSE OF HUMOUR, YOUR PROJECT IS SPECIFIC ALSO WITH A FACT THAT IT NEVER REPEATS ITSELF THEMATICALLY. YOU STARTED IN THE PURELY OCCULT WATERS WITH "IMPRINT DAATH", CONTINUED THROUGH THE DECADENTS ERA WITH "HAUNTED SUMMER", EXPLORING MARIAN CULTS WITH "BENEDICERE" OR THE "FOLK HORROR" PHENOMENON ON THE SOPHOMORE ALBUM. THE PENULTIMATE JOURNEY TOOK US BACK TO THE DAYS OF PSYCHEDELIC HALLUCINATIONS, THE FALL OF THE HIPPIES AND THE ONSET OF SATANIC FEVER WITH "ENDGAME 69". ALL INTERESTING THEMES! HOW DO YOU GET TO IDEAS LIKE THAT?
Ashley: That’s is a good question. And actually, finding a theme and concept is the hardest part of writing a The Devil & The Universe album. So far, the theme always presented itself with time. It can come from anywhere. Like all inspiration. It might be something someone said or a conversation or a book, a thought, a movie. And all of a sudden you just know that this is the right theme. Having said that, I don’t know if we will forever continue to work like that. There might come a time when we do an album with different themes. The very first one actually was like that. It is not as conceptual as the others. The only concept was “the occult” which actually is a very vast and vague concept to be honest.
SANCTUARY.CZ: AND WHAT WAS THE MOMENT WHEN IT FLASHED THROUGH YOUR MIND THAT IN 2022 WE NEED TO EXHUME THOMAS MORE AND SHINE A LIGHT ON THE SEARCH FOR THE PERFECT WORLD AND SOCIETY?
Ashley: The three of us had a conversation about utopian themes, it was the middle of the pandemic and we were talking about dystopian stuff and that it would be interesting to go the other way. I mean who needs more dystopian content if the world we are living in is already a sort of real-life dystopia? It’s more interesting to explore the other direction. We had another concept at first, but that one seemed way more fitting for the times we are living in.
SANCTUARY.CZ: AS WELL AS THE SUBJECT MATTER, YOU'VE AGAIN SHIFTED IN SOUND - FROM EARLY 70'S PSYCHEDELIA TO LATE 70'S SOUNDTRACKS AND KRAUTROCK. HOW DO UTOPIA AND KRAUTROCK GO TOGETHER? OR IS THERE ALSO A CONCEPT IN THAT YOUR RECORDINGS GO SONICALLY CHRONOLOGICAL - EACH ALBUM MAPPING THE FOLLOWING PERIOD OF HUMAN CULTURE? SO THE NEXT RECORD WILL BE SET IN THE EIGHTIES??
Ashley: These 70’s electronica / krautrock sounds certainly have a retro futuristic vibe. And the 2nd title of the album could be “memories of a future that never was”. So it seemed very logical to be influenced by that genre, at least in parts. We wanted to create a feeling of longing for a promised future that never came. Where is the Utopia that was promised in the 70’s? A future memory of time long gone, which never came to be. That was the idea.
It was clear what kind of sounds are needed to create that feeling. And Krautrock was a starting point. Because they evoke this feeling of unfulfilled nostalgia.
Its an interesting way to look at it from a chronological perspective. And it makes sense. Sort of. As for the next album. We shall see. What would be the darkside of the 80’s though? Well the rise of neo liberalism, Thatcher, Regan. Real life demons who are at least in parts responsible for the mess we are in now. Is that a subject for a The Devil & The Universe Album? Nah, not really. But we shall see what comes next.
SANCTUARY.CZ: LET’S SEE. HOWEVER, FOR ALL THE LOVERS OF YOUR MORE RITUALISTIC APPROACH, I CAN'T HELP BUT ASK - DO YOU THINK WE'LL EVER SEE SOME “PROPERLY OCCULT” MATERIAL AGAIN FROM YOU? 😉
Ashley: It is and always was there. It never went away. With the last two albums, certainly with Goatopia it is just not that on the nose anymore. It’s not that obvious. But it is there.
And it is not that hidden either. If you look at the The Great God Pan Is Dead (Long Live The Great God Pan) video, that’s an actual ritual in front of a camera. That is the real deal. It’s just not what people might think it is because they are so into the Hollywood style of occultism, they wouldn’t even recognise a proper ritual happening even if it takes place in front of their eyes. If it doesn’t have all the clichés we all know from our favourite Horror movies it can’t be occultism. And magick with Humour is still a strange thing for many. But believe me, it is not. Especially when you come from a chaos magick approach. We are a magical thinking band, and it will always be a part of us. Maybe next time it will be a bit more obvious again.
SANCTUARY.CZ: SURE. WHAT DO THE DEVIL AND THE UNIVERSE READ AND LISTEN TO THE MOST NOW?
Ashley: I can only speak for myself. There’s always a lot of subjects that interests me, not only occult stuff. I just recently read a book about the skyscraper race, about who builds the tallest building in the world which happened in New York in the early 20th century. Very interesting stuff. There is an interesting book about William Blake waiting for me on the shelve and lots of other stuff. It never stops. One of the saddest things in life is to realize you are not able to read everything there is to read you cannot get into everything which is interesting, you won’t get old enough for that. Music wise I finally listening to some new stuff again. There was plenty of great music coming out in 2022. Mostly bands with female singers or are female centric. There is some great stuff coming out.
I recommend Liela Moos’s new album, or Wet Leg, or Ethel Cain. Plus, I listen to all the classics of course. Having said that none of these will have any influence in what we will do next. My musical taste is very diverse. I like a lot of things, from classical to eastern sufi music, from electronica to rock to doom jazz. There are really no boundaries as long as it reaches me on an emotional level, that’s all what it takes to get me. Oh yeah and I’m a big fan of Miley Cyrus. Her new Single is fantastic.
SANCTUARY.CZ: AND WHAT ABOUT LAMIA VOX, WITH WHOM YOU WILL PLAY IN PRAGUE? DO YOU KNOW HER MUSIC?
Ashley: Yes! sure and I like it very much. Actually I think we fit very well together. I’m really looking forward to it.
SANCTUARY.CZ: BY THE WAY, LAST YEAR FATE TOOK YOU TO OTHER STAGES THAN THE TYPICAL GOTHIC ONES - YOU PLAYED AT FESTIVALS IN NORWAY, FOR EXAMPLE, WHICH ARE QUITE DIFFERENT IN TERMS OF GENRE. WHAT WAS IT LIKE FOR YOU AND HOW DID THEY ACCEPT YOU THERE?
Ashley: Yes , we played some magnificent show up north. Midgardsplot Festival was a show to be remember. It’s a pagan Nordic folk / Viking / Metal Festival. So, we were sort of the exotic animals in the zoo, but the show went really well and they loved it. I might even go so far and say it was one of the best shows in a long time. We will return to the north very soon playing our first ever show in Copenhagen in a couple of weeks. Our music seem to have struck a chord with the Northmen and women.
SANCTUARY.CZ: GLAD TO HEAR THAT! AND WHICH SCENE DO YOU FEEL MOST AT HOME ON? WHICH BANDS DO YOU FEEL THE GREATEST CONNECTION WITH?
Ashley: I do not think in terms of scenes. If I ever would feel at home in a certain genre or scene that would mean we are settling down and therefore we would have nothing new to say. Then it might be time to stop. Good art can only flourish if the ground you walk on is not safe. As soon as it feels too safe you are on the wrong path. At least artistically speaking 😉 But we surely feel at ease with the Goth Scene and they make up the majority of our Fanbase. I like the peacefulness of these people. And they are very loyal. I’m very thankful for their support.
SANCTUARY.CZ: IT’S NICE TO HEAR THAT! AND ARE YOU PLANNING SOMETHING SPECIAL FOR PRAGUE?
Ashley: You shall see! But Prague itself is always very special for us. Thank you for having us again!
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